On behalf of Omnibucket, Cyril Helnwein chats with Klaus Meine and Rudolf Schenker of the legendary rock band, The Scorpions, June 2006:

Cyril Helnwein: As Germany's biggest worldwide Rock export, do you think it was important for the songs to be in English? Do you see yourself as more of an English/American rock band rather than a German one?

Klaus Meine: I think when we started as a young band it was very important to work with English lyrics because in the end they were like tickets for a world career. It was always our vision as a young German band to go all over the world and play to that audience. We became a very international band, and especially in the 80s we almost became an American band. There's not so much of a German influence in our music since we were very much inspired by English and American artists.

Rudolf Schenker: At this time it was important to sing in English. We see ourselves more as a global band with the possibility to musically build bridges between different cultures, generations, countries and continents.

Cyril Helnwein: If there were anything you could change about the past (yours or someone else's), what would it be?

Klaus Meine: I think the way this trip went - it's been a long, long ride and everything turned out fine. But of course there are some things, when you look back, that you'd want to have done differently. In the 80s we had a financial advisor who became something like a manager and that was a big mistake. When we found a new manager and we started all over again with a whole new organization, we never made the same mistakes again.

Cyril Helnwein: I think that can happen easily - you always hear of trouble bands have with record companies or managers.

Klaus Meine: Yea it's not so easy, especially when you're based in Germany and have a worldwide career. In the past 30 years there haven't been many German artists with successful international careers like ours (Rammstein maybe).

Rudolf Schenker: Everything is good and right the way it is. We are subject to a learning process that drives us to solve the problems that haven't been solved yet.

Cyril Helnwein: What kind of artistic censorship did you have to endure (for example a lot of your album covers were very sexual), and how did you deal with it?

Klaus Meine: It was interesting - We ran into trouble with a lot of covers, especially in America. Some were really great, but looking back with today's point of view they were a little over the top. If you look at a cover like "Virgin Killer" today you'd think about child pornography and stuff like this, but there were many beautiful covers too and your dad was part of this artwork history of the Scorpions. "Blackout" was an amazing cover, it was so powerful, and it was a real piece of art. We were always interested in having rock n roll and art really close together. "Blackout" became a signature artwork for the Scorpions and it still is a classic to this day all over the world. It stands out as one of the best albums we did and we're very proud of it.

Rudolf Schenker: We always tried to grace our albums with unusual covers. Looking back on it now, sometimes we may have gone too far, especially with "Virgin Killer" - that's something we wouldn't do anymore today. It was a visual representation of the lyrics of the song.

Cyril Helnwein: What was it like for you growing up in post-war Germany? At that time, were you aware of the past or was it something no one really talked about?

Klaus Meine: We were definitely aware of the past. In the 50s and 60s they had this German "hit music" in Germany and the music we were inspired by was English and American music. After the war there was a kind of depression in Germany and the sad past with the holocaust was something that were always aware of. We see ourselves as a sort of musical ambassador to Germany, showing people that Germans can also bring something positive into the world.

Rudolf Schenker: Due to Germany's past we were plagued by a shadow of guilt and we grew up without patriotic pride. We were careful to present ourselves in a positive way when we were in other countries, and to musically turn around the German picture and show people that not only war but also good music can come out of Germany (which has been proven many times in the history of music).

Cyril Helnwein: At what point in the history of the Scorpions did you get your big worldwide breakthrough and what was that like? Animal Magnetism ('80), Blackout ('82) or another time?

Klaus Meine: "Love Drive" at the end of the 70s was a very powerful and successful album, then of course "Blackout" was the next step that put us up there and made us headliners in stadiums and areas all over the world, it became a multi-platinum album. Japan went totally crazy for the Scorpions and then America was just ready. We started touring as special guests with many bands from Aerosmith and Ted Nugent to AC/DC and then with "Love at First Sting" a young band by the name of Bon Jovi became our opening act. In the early days we had an underground following in the states in the 70s, but when we played in Japan the word was out that the Scorpions were an international band. Our first show was a big festival in Cleveland, in front of 70,000 people. We were the opening act of course, and we supported Ted Nugent and AC/DC - we learned how to play big arenas and entertain people, so by the time "Blackout" came out we were ready to take the headliner position.

Rudolf Schenker: Our first feeling that we achieved a breakthrough was 1978 on our Japan tour, which was the first time we were celebrated as stars. Then, of course, the breakthrough in America and worldwide with albums like "Blackout" and "Love at First Sting". It was an incredible feeling but also hid many dangers, which could only be overcome through teamwork.

Cyril Helnwein: What were your feelings in 1981 when Klaus Meine lost his vocal chords? Besides the vocal chord operations, what helped you overcome it?

Klaus Meine: It was a very difficult time but I had very strong support from my family and from Rudolf. I had my Vienna connection, not only with your father but also with a wonderful Dr. Kirsten. After 2 operations he helped me build up my vocal chords and gave me the confidence to use my voice the way I was used to. When I was really depressed and told Rudolf to look for a new singer, he said "No way! Do everything for your voice and we'll wait for you until you get it back." It was an amazing triumph of friendship. It could have been the end of the road for me, but really it was just the beginning of a career that was taking off to the next level. Vienna played a big part in it, not only the album, which was a very strong record, but also that everything worked out. I remember meeting your dad for the first time and we were all so excited and out of that came something very special that still stands out today.

Rudolf Schenker: Friendship and a belief in each other.

Cyril Helnwein: The power of art and music cuts through everything else that is "humanoid". As the first foreign rock band to play behind the iron curtain in 1988, do you think you had something to do with the fall of communism and the end of the cold war?

Klaus Meine: I know music definitely has its share in changing the world. When we went over to the former Soviet Union, we played 10 shows in Leningrad in '88. Fans came from all over the USSR, even Siberia, to see a western rock band. It was still in the days when the KGB was everywhere and they were watching us 24 hours a day. You could feel there was a young audience and there was change in the air. A year later, when we played at the now legendary Moscow Music Peace Festival with Bon Jovi, Skid Row, and several Russian and German bands, we all went down the Moskva river in a boat one night and it was like a vision - the whole world in one boat, talking the same language - music. It was just beautiful and when we played in front of 100,000 at the Lenin stadium (they even lit up the Olympic fire), you could feel that the time of the cold war was possibly coming to an end. We knew the world was about to change - those people in Moscow were screaming and going crazy for rock music and peace. It was an inspiration for one of our biggest hits "Winds of Change" which I wrote on the way back from Moscow, a few months later the Berlin wall came down. I'm not a prophet all, but we all could feel that the old communist days were over.

Rudolf Schenker: We wrote the soundtrack for a peaceful revolution. An incredible change had occurred. Music played a subconscious role here, but it was not the underlying cause.
What do you think about contemporary pop music?

Klaus Meine: I like all kinds of stuff - I listen to whatever gives me a good feeling -Coldplay, the Arctic Monkeys, U2, Johnny Cash, AC/DC, David Gilmore, Metallica, Mark Knöplfer and Emmylou Harris' new album.

Rudolf Schenker: There is only good and bad music. In contemporary pop music there are also very good songs and music, but my heart lies in rock music.

Cyril Helnwein: What was the last CD you bought?

Klaus Meine: A best of from Janis Joplin.

Rudolf Schenker: Red Hot Chili Peppers, Stadium Arcadium.

Cyril Helnwein: Bands like Bon Jovi, Metallica, Iron Maiden and Def Leppard were your supporting acts. How did you influence each other, did you learn things from them and they from you?

Klaus Meine: When Bon Jovi was supporting us we were on top of the world, playing venues like Madison Square Gardens, the Forum and all those places. Doc McGee, who was their manager and later on became our manager in America, told Jon and the guys "You stay here and watch the Scorps and I want you to watch every move they make", and sure - they learned a lot in those days because we were on top of the game. Same with young bands like Def Leppard when they supported us on a couple tours. Metallica was supporting us on the Monsters of Rock tour when we co-headlined with Van Halen many shows from east to west. They were the young kids, the new generation, and what we learned from them was that it was the end of the 80s and the beginning of alternative music. They came on stage not dressed up at all, just jeans and t-shirts. It's was the end of the hard rock heavy-metal mania with all the hair bands going crazy with all their stage outfits. Looking at those pictures now you go "wow, what the hell is this?" You could feel something new; it was not only the new look but also new music. They were down to earth and not dressed up like Las Vegas. We're still good friends with Bon Jovi, AC/DC and Metallica, whenever they come around we go to see them. A while ago we bumped into AC/DC in New York and they invited us into the studio and Brian Johnson said "you guys sit in the control room and now AC/DC will play just for you".

Rudolf Schenker: Subconsciously we all influence each other, so it's hard to say who gives what to whom.
What special advice can you give to young people who want to become artists?

Klaus Meine: No matter where you come from, you can make it if you just follow your heart and really believe in yourself and don't listen to people who tell you some bullshit. If you have the dream, you can do it.

Rudolf Schenker: Believe in yourself, be patient and practice a lot.

Cyril Helnwein: How did you overcome the difficulty of being away from your family when you toured and was it something that created problems?

Klaus Meine: Touring as much as we did and still do, it's a miracle that I'm still together with my wife Gaby. So many relationships with band members didn't make it. It's not easy to have your family and to have your rock n roll family out there, so you have to have a partner that's very supportive and understands that rock music and what you do means so much and is the love of your live. If you have the right partner it really works and I'm a lucky man.

Rudolf Schenker: Meditation.

Cyril Helnwein: What are your plans for the future?

Klaus Meine: We're about to play the first show in our hometown (Hannover) for many, many years. We're playing for the opening game of the World Cup. They've built a big 40,000-seat area with huge monster screens for the people who can't get tickets for the game area and we are playing a show for the opening. Then we go to Russia, and at the end of the month we go to America, Cypress, Germany again and then for the first time to Mongolia. In fall we will hopefully go back into the studio for a new album for 2007.

Rudolf Schenker: Currently we are on a world tour, we're working on a new album and we are searching for more big challenges that make our world seem colorful.

Cyril Helnwein: World Cup prediction?

Klaus Meine: I'm hoping for Brazil and Germany in the finals. Germany has a very young team, but they are strong and maybe they can give us a surprise. When you watch Brazil play, it's like they are from another planet.

Cyril Helnwein: Thank you for the interview.

Klaus Meine: It was a pleasure; say hi to your family.

Rudolf Schenker: Greetings to your dad.

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Marilyn Manson interview Cyril Helnwein, September 22nd 2002 for Tastes Like Chicken:

click here to read the interview in German

click here to read the interview in Italian

click here to read the interview in Japanese


THE FRENCH SAY, "CONDEMNANT IL FAIT Q'UOD": "WE CONDEMN WHAT WE DO NOT UNDERSTAND." BUT THAT STOPS RIGHT HERE. LAY YOUR OPINIONS OF THE MAN TO REST UNTIL AFTER YOU'VE READ THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION BETWEEN CYRIL HELNWEIN AND MARILYN MANSON

Cyril Helnwein: Thank you very much for your time; it's an honor and a pleasure to interview you.

Marilyn Manson: Thank you. Of course, for everybody who reads this - they won't know that our meeting has been very important to my career, because you introduced me to your father (Gottfried Helnwein) and we've gone and will go on to do lots of great stuff together. So that's the behind-the-scenes story for everybody who's going to read this.

Cyril Helnwein: Yes, and I'm very excited about that because you are probably my most favorite artist.

Marilyn Manson: Thank you, I owe you because you hooked me up.

Cyril Helnwein: You're quite welcome. Okay, so my first question: if it were the last day on earth, what would you be doing right now?

Marilyn Manson: Not an interview, that's for sure. I suppose I'd prefer to be performing, I've always said that this would be the way I'd like to end things; with my death as a performance in itself. But then it's hard because you're torn – once you get attached to things like your loved ones and your pets and things like that, so it would be a tough call. I suppose part of me would want to go on a killing spree and take out everyone who's fucked me over in life, and a part of me would probably just want to sit quietly with my cat and my girl. But it depends on what day you ask me, it's always different. But today is a good day, so I'd probably just want to sit with my cat.

Cyril Helnwein: Being not only a musician, but also a performance artist, writer, producer, actor, director and recently successful painter, where do you find all your inspiration? What drives you to create?

Marilyn Manson: I've always dreaded being called a musician, because I always wanted to write and paint and I used to do art as a kid. I tried my hand at writing, and I enjoy being able to express myself in that way, but I didn't enjoy writing about other people so in journalism, there wasn't something there really. But I do like watching other people and reporting on it, so I guess you end up doing the same thing when you're a painter or a singer, because it all ends up being the same job. But journalism is in a sense, I guess, the root of all evil and the root of all art because it's really just about observing and reporting it to others. But I'm not ashamed to just merely be considered an entertainer, because art is entertaining; sometimes some of my stuff is funny, some of it has pain in it, some of it has confusion, some of it has anger, sex. I have a real hard time drawing the lines between any of them. The only thing that freed me up, and I think – it is an art form in itself to act and to be an actor. You're releasing yourself to the director and you are sort of a tool of another artist. And I've enjoyed the release because I'm so much in control of every detail of what I do, that it was interesting to have somebody else put me somewhere and do something and not play myself – to act you have to be another character. And then it gets confusing because I play so many different roles in my own life, just for my own amusement. People always ask me “are you the same on stage and off”, and sometimes I'm much more out of control off stage than on stage. People sometimes don't know if I'm nice or if I'm mean, and I'm both. I reflect what you give to me. I think that's something that when I first began forming the idea of Marilyn Manson, it was the time when talk shows had just really become a staple in American entertainment and every channel there was, had interviews with serial killers. And then there were stories about dead celebrities and the two became intertwined and then started to bring to mind stories like “The Black Dahlia”, where the girl who came to Hollywood to become famous, and became famous when she died. Or more recently, Columbine: these kids wanted to be famous because they were considered nobodies. And they got what they wanted and the news media gave it to them. That's when I first started seeing things about Marilyn Monroe that really interested me because there was so much tragedy behind the beauty. I think so many people had overlooked that because they dehumanized her later to just a product on some T-shirt sold on Hollywood Boulevard or something. And then at the same time I was seeing Charles Manson in interviews saying all these things; it made sense in '69 and it made sense in '96 and it makes sense today. He was saying a lot of things that I've gone on to say and I think he expresses the same idea that he is a reflection of culture. How can you – how can America hate something that it created. It's like being mad at your own shit. You should have eaten something different. All of that somehow started brewing up in my brain, and when you're in that position when you're turning 19 or 20 and you have to decide what you're going to be when you grow up, I found out that I don't want to grow up, I want to be Peter Pan. So I decided to create a world where I didn't have to play by anybody's rules and Marilyn Monroe and Charles Manson were the two things that spelled that world out. Phonetically it's like Abracadabra; you know Manson by his last name, you know Marilyn by the first name and it just goes together like “Mickey Mouse". It says everything; you say “Marilyn Manson” and it needs no explanation. It conjures up such images, no matter what country you're from. It's very American, but at the same time I think like a European and my reason for choosing the name is both a celebration and a harsh criticism of America. And that kind of creates the whole contradiction that I thrive on. So working with your father, working with Tim Skold, now a member of the band, and he's from Sweden. I think that European artists appreciate my understanding of American culture because I look at it as an outsider. I was always treated as an outsider and it doesn't make me hate America, it doesn't make me love it; it just makes me see it for what it is. In someway a part of the problem and a part of the solution, being all you can be is entertaining in the midst of it because there is no final answer – so just be part of the show. I don't want to be in the audience, I want to be on the stage. And now with what I'm doing, I don't want to be on the stage, I want everybody to be part of the show.

Cyril Helnwein: One of the first stories you wrote as a journalist was as Brian Warner about Marilyn Manson.

Marilyn Manson: That was also part, strangely, what I suppose deep down in my heart, I knew that I would get here, to what I am now. But in the initial insecurity of “where do I go from here in my life”, I thought I could lead a secret identity almost. I thought maybe I could continue to be a journalist and maybe get a great job in Rolling Stone or something silly like that, and I started this band and all of a sudden I thought “well, nobody really knows who I am, I don't have any friends here, so why don't I write the article, why don't I call up all these record companies that I writing articles about their bands and say ‘hey, I got this great band I heard of – Marilyn Manson, would you sign them'.” It worked for a period until I didn't want to be two people anymore; I just wanted to be one person. It wasn't being a different person; I just wanted to kind of narrow it down to one thing.

Cyril Helnwein: Would you rather be eaten by sharks or be injected with lethal toxins if you had to make a choice between those two?

Marilyn Manson: [laughs] I think I already have had enough lethal toxins on a daily basis as it is, between Absinthe and everything else. I have a real great fear for the ocean and sharks. I lived in Florida and I rarely went near the ocean because as a kid, the film “Jaws” really scared me. Earlier you asked where my inspirations come from; films are where everything comes from for me, it's my inspiration for everything. And that's why, I think, I find myself able to direct something with the freedom of not creating something for public consumption, not working within the demands of the consumer – creating it for artistic purposes. That's where I'm going to be happy. That's what I like about painting – because when I did these paintings I did not think, “I wonder if people are going to like this”, “I wonder if someone's going to buy this”, “you think I should paint more of this type because it'll be more popular?” I painted because it made me calm and it entertained me. Some of the paintings were gifts to other people and it made me feel nice to give a gift to somebody. That was a nice freedom as an artist, because as a musician, you create a family of your fans and it's like being a mother and if you start feeding your kids a certain thing every Sunday, you have to keep feeding them that or they're going to get mad or they're going to want to go out and eat at McDonalds. [Laughs] So as a musician, in terms of music, I do have to consider the desires of my fans but I do want them to grow with me so I want them to accept change. But I don't want to be self-indulgent and arrogant and forsake their loyalty at the same time. So it's a tough, sometimes very depressing, line to walk, and for someone like me, who's always changing and a shape shifter, it's hard to keep things going but also be developed into a fast-forward culture where things are forgotten – sometimes before they're even remembered. I'm proud to say that I've been able to exist in the music industry this long because most people don't.

Cyril Helnwein: That kind of brings me to the next question - every album that you've produced, has it's own drastically different style, attitude and vibe, yet it's still easily recognizable as Marilyn Manson. Do you think you'll ever get bored of doing that specifically, and do something completely different – maybe start a boy-band or something?

Marilyn Manson: Well I do really like the scoring job. When I got to do “Resident Evil”, we intentionally avoided it sounding like Marilyn Manson in a rock song sense. We did desire for the score to contain guitar elements but we used them in a cold, mechanical, harsh way. My collaboration with Tim Skold was where that whole relationship began, during that job. I had a great time doing it because what I did, they had a hard time defining, because of the different jobs different people do; there's the composer who does the traditional string arranging, then there's sometimes the person who supervises the music that they take from albums that already exist, and then there's the sound designer who creates atmospheres and the alarming and emotion-invoking textures. And I wanted to do all that, I didn't see any reason why there should be more than one person handling that so they had a hard time. I guess I gave them more than they were expecting, and they were happy with it, but the other person who was hired for the job, Marco Beltrami; he's very talented in a classical sense, he even writes out things on a piece of paper. Our music was 80% of what was on the film but because he was the established composer, we kind of took second billing for that, but I think now we've kind of proved that we can do that sort of thing, we've gotten a lot of offers. I've just agreed to score the new interpretation of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which I myself thought could be very hokey and could be very silly because the first Texas Chainsaw Massacre is the template for all horror movies - it's the first and best, I would say, scary film; psychologically terrifying, not just a slasher movie. And the sounds in the score of that are all music-less, scraping and plucking strings sounds and things like that. I've even sampled things from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, [laughs] but I've mutated them enough so they shouldn't come after me and sue me. So I want to try and treat it in the same way when I do it, and I told the director when I had a meeting with him, he said “What do you think the music should be?”, and “Should we put a Marilyn Manson song in the end credits?” and I said that would ruin the film because they're trying to create this interpretation of Texas Chainsaw Massacre as the real story. The movie we saw in the 70s was based on a real story and now this is the true story and that's what gives it a real interesting twist and I like it and I read the script and I feel like, if the director does everything right, I can, with the music, make it a very scary movie. And they said, “What are you going to do with the music?” and I said, “people are really going to be paying me to create silence because I think the absence of music is what is often most effective”. Some of the best movies almost have no music in them.

Cyril Helnwein: If you could wish one person gone from this earth – never even to have existed, past or present, who would it be?

Marilyn Manson: That's hard - everybody does have their own purpose. Every person that's caused harm to me – that wound that they made has been bandaged with some song or something. So I wouldn't thank them for it, but I don't know if I'd be the same person. But maybe if I stepped outside my own personal existence… somebody who's ruined someway that things work… hmmm…. That's tough, tough, tough. I suppose Adam; then none of us would be here. [laughs]

Cyril Helnwein: If censorship weren't as strong in America, compared to Europe for example, would you have done more provocative or more extravagant things, and where do you draw your own line?

Marilyn Manson: There is a different kind of censorship in Europe than there is in America. America has a lot of hang-ups on sex but they sell and exploit it endlessly, but they're ashamed of it so that that's where the censorship comes in. America's really ashamed of itself, where as Europe's not. And that sexual shame is the source – any Freudian, Youngian, Psychiatrist, Psychologist, will tell you that's what it all comes from – American Christianity and the shame that it creates. But there's a lot of political censorship in Europe; your father's (Gottfried Helnwein,s) work finds itself in a lot of trouble as does mine, the strange things like in Japan, the cover of the “Mechanical Animals” album was censored – but not because I was nude, because I had 6 fingers and they are real sensitive about physical deformities. I said, “well what about the rest of the…” [gestures towards his body] and so there are just odd things like that. I wasn't allowed any religious clothing or have any references to religion when we played in Warsaw on stage. Rather than canceling the show and disappointing the fans or changing the show, we played different songs. On the DVD that's coming out, there are some bits and pieces from that concert where we did a few things there that we only played once. Over here, people want to arrest me for showing my ass or whatever it is, but they're selling “Girls Gone Wild” videotapes. That's the world we live in. There needs to be censorship because there need to be boundaries in order to cross the boundaries.

Cyril Helnwein: True. Is there a point where you have your own personal boundary with things?

Marilyn Manson: Absolutely, everything I have done is within my boundaries, and my boundaries are often more related to doing things for the wrong reasons. The thing that I hate most – more than censorship, more than what the government or MTV or record companies tell you “you can't” – it's when bands, musicians, artists, whatever they want to call themselves, censor themselves in order to succeed.

Cyril Helnwein: Make compromises?

Marilyn Manson: Well, not make compromises after the fact. I think everybody has to do that to find the bigger picture. You have to find the compromise you can live with as an artist. For example, my new record has a lot of songs that they would consider to be singles to be played on the radio and I might have to censor profanity for the single to be played on the radio. But if I would have, while writing the song, said “Well this is really catchy”, “Maybe I shouldn't put this word in here”, that's the wrong kind of thing. That's when you sell yourself out, when you censor your creation in anticipation for success or monetary gain. Everybody's going to have to make their work fit in to the world around it after it's created. That's still part of the creation, I don't think that's necessarily censorship – that's kind of putting things within the boundaries. That's part of being an artist and wanting to succeed, for me it isn't about money as much as it is about wanting to have as many people hear and see what I do. And you can easily defeat yourself by not making certain compromises that are for the better good.

Cyril Helnwein: Right. When was the last time you watched a TV soap opera and what was it?

Marilyn Manson: I think the soap opera's of today are these reality-TV shows. I think part of it is the laziness of not wanting to hire actors and part of it's the voyeurism – which the internet is partly responsible for, and there's a real dangerous element of culture that is developing that needs to be stamped out and I will not be a part of, and that is the inter-active element of things like TRL or when you're watching something on MTV that's like “Britney Spears is trying to pick what she's going to wear, write in and help her decide” or “We're in the studio writing our song, here's a piece of it, tell us what you think”. When the artist starts letting the audience help them create, then the art is destroyed. That's quite different from trying to please you're audience, but it's developing a culture where – like these soap operas, that aren't really actors, that are just real life – it's a culture where eventually, because of all of that and video games and being able to make films with animation that look so real – that it eliminates the artist. It's not a fear, or my fear of being extinct; it's a fear of taking away the basic element, what it's all about. Sure, I use a computer to record music and we use a computer to make sounds and things like that, but you have to be able to still have a set of crayons and paper to do something that's worthwhile. Eventually it will end up killing itself; kids now have grown to be so demanding, because it's the whole give-an-inch-take-a-mile thing, once you start letting people make choices like where they have – or you'll go on a website and there'll be a poll – “Which do you like better”, “Which do you think should be the next song that comes out from Christina Aguilera or Marilyn Manson” or whoever it's going to be, and everybody puts in their votes. Eventually that's going to create such a demand that artists are just going to… it's just going to make people not want to be creative. It's just going to encourage a lack of creativity. And on the Internet there's a lot of people that can just sit back anonymously and say “That's sucks, I can do that better”. The challenge should be, “Well, do it better”. That's why anybody that tries to criticize anybody's art, mine or someone else's, it creates an environment that is truly a product of journalism. You can't define what something is, you can say you like it or you don't like it, but you can't take it apart.

Cyril Helnwein: Everyone always has their own different opinion of it anyway.

Marilyn Manson: It all has it's own meanings. That's just the basic idea of life being art and just enjoying all of it at all times; playing a movie, always being in a movie. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe someday I'll find out that I'm an actor playing somebody else. Like I had a great amnesia and no one told me.

Cyril Helnwein: That would be quite a realization… You have often been unjustly accused of things by the finger-pointing media that you weren't, I don't know if guilty is the right word, but definitely didn't have anything to do with – for example the Columbine kids. Why do you think they especially like you as a scapegoat and do you think that this possibly is a sign of your own originality and success as an artist?

Marilyn Manson: I think that I had as much to do with Columbine as everybody else does, as a part of American culture. But I think that's the reason why I chose “Crop Failure” as the title of a painting I did of Harris and Klebold. I think you have to blame the farmers when the flowers don't grow properly, you can't blame the landlord who owns the property or the girl that gets the bouquet. Or the guy who buys it for her. I think when people want something to be shocking or they want to call it whatever word – I think it's lazy journalism when people constantly refer to me as “shock rocker” – it's a tiring, tiring term. Because I don't think that I'm shocking, I didn't try to be shocking. If I am shocking and I got your attention, that means that I'm good because there's so much out there – if something gets your attention, it's good. I think that's the bottom line, and if it continues to, for as long as I have, then that means that I'm really good and I should be proud of it. And I can say that without being arrogant, I think it's just a matter of fact that we live in a world of really mediocre things and I'm trying to raise the bar with everything that I do and trying to work with great people and bring back a desire for a higher aesthetic and usher in this golden age of grotesque idea. That's obviously why I'm working with your father, and trying to collaborate with other people who are like-minded and want the world to be exciting like it was in Weimar-Berlin or in the 70s in New York, or fashion, and music and art were just rather decadent and it was bursting at the seams and then just watch everyone run in fear to try and stop it all. It's always fun instigating new things. I build something up and someone else tries to break it down.

Cyril Helnwein: Tell us your best party joke, or some joke or prank you played on somebody else.

Marilyn Manson: There's a lot of them, I think one of my favorite was very mean-spirited. There was a girl in a hotel bar, while we were on tour, that came up to me while I was just trying to relax with my friends and my band. She was quite obnoxious; asked me who I was, it was quite clear she knew who I was. I told her, and then she said she wasn't a fan and I said, “Well okay, that's fine” and then she sat down and kept bothering me and told me how much she really didn't care who I was. And I said, “Okay, go away then” and then later I went back to my room and somehow she had found out what room I was in and knocked on my door. I had been at a spy store recently where they sold spy apparatuses and other devices and also prank items, and I bought this liquid container called “The Evacuator” – it says to put in several drops in someone's drink and they will immediately shit themselves, and it says don't put in too much because it could result in hospitalization. Well, I poured the entire bottle into a glass and I said “Oh, well hey – I'm so glad to see you back, why don't you come in and have a drink”, then I gave her the shot. She went back to her room, and her friend came knocking on the door of my room, waking me up, and my bodyguard in the room next door. “Have you seen my friend, is she with you?” “No”, I said, “she's not with me”. “Oh, I can't get in my room, the door's locked.” So they had to break in the door and they found her lying naked on the bed, covered in shit. She had gotten drunk, passed out and shit all over herself.

Cyril Helnwein: Oh no!

Marilyn Manson: I found that to be quite amusing. [laughs]

Cyril Helnwein: She got what she deserved, I guess.

Marilyn Manson: Yea.

Cyril Helnwein: You've often and openly admitted to illegal drug use. Was this more to experiment artistically and help creatively or rather for your personal pleasure?

Marilyn Manson: I think drugs are best used when they are to have fun, to enjoy yourself, to loosen up. The worst use of drugs is when you're not able to deal with the depression or whatever it might be, or for self-destruction. I've gone through periods of extreme highs and lows and I feel, in particularly this week, last week I felt quite depressed – it wasn't really drugs or anything but there was a little bit of apprehension about what people – you know, having to see my paintings. And not that it matters much, but of course everybody – especially me, has feelings. I mean, what people underestimate about me, is how sensitive I am. Because I'm so sensitive, that's why it's best being so dramatic and why I have to build up such a show. But I found myself this week being rather positive, I have crossed the bridge onto the next level of where I need to go and I'm quite confident that this is going to be the best era – this golden age – that's coming for me and as I'm starting on this next album, I think it will show people exactly what I'm capable of. Anyone who underestimated me before will know differently now. So, I think, any drugs now are to be part of decadence and letting loose. I think Absinthe is probably my worst vice, if I had to pick one, because I just like it. It tastes good and it makes me create a lot of, well I wouldn't say makes me, but is has inspired a lot of my best work - a lot of my paintings, a lot of my writing. It does tap in, poke holes in the temple or lobe and let out some demons that were hiding in there. So it's an enjoyable, not a depressing thing. I used to be a miserable drinking person back in the early days of self-destruction, but now I'm a much happier person with a different approach.

Cyril Helnwein: Two paintings of yours, which are probably my favorite ones, look very absinthe inspired. One is of William Burroughs I believe, how you would like to look as an old man; the other is “The Enabler”.

Marilyn Manson: That's my friend Jonathan. Yea, I suppose I really like the color green too so maybe I'm partly drawn to that, the “When I get old” painting – it actually has some Absinthe used in there. In a couple of them, as I was painting, I had my drink sitting right by my paint bowl and I'd dip into the wrong one, so it mixed in the drink, I just painted with it because it makes a nice green. So thank you, those are two of my favorites also.

Cyril Helnwein: Alright, I think you kind of answered my next question already, but maybe there is something else – is there any one thing that gives you particular feelings of hate, fear or disgust?

Marilyn Manson: Well, there's more than one thing, but I suppose – while it's okay to lounge around and take days off – I suppose laziness or a lack of desire to accomplish anything disgusts me most. It might be because I have such an extreme work ethic, or rather, creative impulse – because I don't really like to consider I do work. I have to be doing something constantly. It was hard for me not to want to sit down and paint today because I was so happy with the show; I wanted to paint a new picture of my cat. I wanted to paint so many things but I convinced myself just to relax and to meet with you and do this interview, and to go out; actually leave the house and have dinner, which is a rare thing for me. But I find it hard, and this is the reason why it's very difficult for me to find people to collaborate with, and to keep certain friends or band members in my life because while it is my vision, I think that I'm quite willing to share that with whoever has the same ambition and drive as I do. I find it particularly with Tim, who has helped me produce this record and has encouraged me to do things that I had forgotten that I like to do. Anyone who just doesn't want to create or who's satisfied with mediocrity or anyone who just takes for granted their talent and lets it go to waste, whatever that might be. Even if it's mowing lawns, or painting walls, whatever it is. I think that's the thing that disgusts me the most. I'm not an unkind person by any means; people that I love, I do anything for. I support my parents, they're both retired and they have no retirement income. I support them completely; I take care of everybody that I care about. But you won't see me giving a dime to a beggar on the street. But I think that's actually part of a metaphor of the story your father and I are creating and the idea of how liberal idealism is often the downfall of America; when you let people think it's okay to hold their hands out and expect the other people, who work really hard to get where they are, to give something to you.

Cyril Helnwein: That also breeds further criminality.

Marilyn Manson: Yea, and a lot of people think that's all evil American capitalists but it's easy to bitch about that if you're poor and it's easy to hate it if you're rich. I don't consider myself extremely rich, but I think I worked hard for every dime that I've earned. So I cherish everything I own and I don't spend my money foolishly or anything like that.

Cyril Helnwein: I think you also answered the next question, but maybe you want to add something else. Is there one thing that makes you particularly happy and content or gives you joy?

Marilyn Manson: Several things; my cat and I have a very nice relationship, she calms me down, painting makes me very happy, finishing a record makes me very happy and creating the record makes me very happy. The middle process of getting it finished is very stressful. Anal sex, good movies, being with the woman I love – that goes back to the anal sex part, I don't want you to think that was a homosexual reference. And I guess kind of getting to relax on a day like today, after the stress of having an art show and people honestly saying, “Hey, I liked what you did” and not just kissing my ass or trying to tell me what I want to hear. I feel like I accomplished something, I am a humble person, I'm very confident and I think I do the best that I can do. Now people can debate whether I'm the best that there is; I know that I'm the best that I can be. And that's the best that anyone can be.

Cyril Helnwein: Great, that basically wraps it up for me. Thank you very much again for your time. Is there anything else you'd like to say or ask?

Marilyn Manson: I think people should just expect everything that they've seen and heard from me to seem tame in comparison to what is to come.

Cyril Helnwein: I look forward to it.

MARILYN MANSON INTERVIEW VON CYRIL HELNWEIN

(Übersetzt von Daisy 13)

 

DIE FRANZOSEN SAGEN "CONDEMNANT IL FAIT Q'UOD": "WIR VERDAMMEN WAS WIR NICHT VERSTEHEN." ABER DAS ENDET GENAU HIER. LEGEN SIE IHRE MEINUNG ÜBER DIESEN MANN BEISEITE BIS SIE DAS GANZE GESPRÄCH ZWISCHEN CYRIL HELNWEIN UND MARILYN MANSON GELESEN HABEN

Cyril Helnwein:Vielen Dank für deine Zeit; es ist mir eine Ehre und Freude Dich zu interviewen.

Marilyn Manson: Danke. Natürlich, jeder der das hier liest - weiß nicht daß unser Treffen sehr wichtig für meine Karriere war, denn Du hast mich deinem Vater (Gottfried Helnwein) vorgestellt, und wir haben und werden auch in Zukunft jede Menge zusammen machen. Das ist also die Behind-the-scenes Geschichte für jeden, der das hier liest.

Cyril Helnwein: Ja, und ich bin sehr erfreut darüber, denn Du bist wahrscheinlich einer meiner Lieblingskünstler.

Marilyn Manson: Danke, ich schulde Dir was, denn Du hast mich mit ihm bekannt gemacht.

Cyril Helnwein: Gern geschehen. Ok, meine erste Frage: wenn heute dein letzter Tag auf Erden sein würde, was würdest Du dann in diesem Augenblick tun?

Marilyn Manson: Auf jeden Fall kein Interview, das ist schon mal sicher. Ich denke ich würde es vorziehen aufzutreten, ich habe schon immer gesagt daß das der Weg wäre auf dem ich alles gerne beenden würde; mit meinem Tod als Performance in sich selbst. Aber es ist hart, denn man ist hin- und hergerissen - wenn man erst einmal mit seinen Freunden, Haustieren und solchen Sachen verbunden ist, es wäre also eine schwere Entscheidung. Ich denke ein Teil von mir würde gerne auf Amoklauf gehen und jeden umlegen der mich in meinem Leben abgepisst hat, und ein anderer Teil von mir würde wahrscheinlich einfach gerne friedlich mit meiner Katze und meiner Freundin die Zeit verbringen. Aber das hängt davon ab an welchem Tag Du mich fragst, es ist immer unterschiedlich. Aber heute ist ein guter Tag, also möchte ich wahrscheinlich einfach nur mit meiner Katze rumsitzen.

Cyril Helnwein: Da Du nicht nur Musiker, sondern auch Performance Künstler, Schriftsteller, Produzent, Schauspieler, Regisseur und unlängst auch erfolgreicher Maler bist, wo findest Du deine ganze Inspiration? Was treibt Dich an?

Marilyn Manson: Ich habe es immer gefürchtet Musiker genannt zu werden, denn ich wollte schon immer schreiben und malen und schon als Kind habe ich Kunst gemacht. Ich habe es mit Schreiben probiert und ich mag es mich auf diesem Weg auszudrücken, aber ich habe es nicht gemocht über andere Leute zu schreiben, also gab es nicht viel auf journalistischer Ebene. Ich mag es aber andere Leute zu beobachten und darüber zu berichten, also denke ich daß man als Maler oder Sänger genau dasselbe macht, denn am Ende ist es derselbe Beruf. Aber Journalismus ist in gewissem Sinne, schätze ich, der Ursprung allen Böses und der Ursprung aller Kunst denn es geht wirklich nur darum andere zu beobachten und es an andere zu berichten. Aber ich bin nicht beschämt lediglich als Entertainer betrachtet zu werden, denn Kunst ist unterhaltsam, manchmal sind einige meiner Sachen lustig, manches beinhaltet Schmerz, manches beinhaltet Konfusion, manches beinhaltet Ärger, Sex. Es ist sehr schwer für mich die Trennlinie zwischen diesen Sachen zu ziehen. Die einzige Sache die mich befreit hat, und ich denke - es ist eine Kunstform für sich selbst schauzuspielern und Schauspieler zu sein. Du gibst dich selber frei für den Regisseur, und du bist eine Art Werkzeug für einen anderen Künstler. Und ich habe diese Befreiung genossen, denn ich habe so viel Kontrolle über jedes Detail von dem was ich tue, daß es interessant war jemanden zu haben der mich irgendwohin stellt und etwas machen lässt, und mich nicht mich selbst spielen lässt - um schauzuspielern mußt du ein anderer Charakter sein. Und dann wird es verwirrend, denn ich spiele so viele Rollen in meinem eigenen Leben, nur zu meiner eigenen Belustigung. Die Leute fragen mich immer "bist Du derselbe auf- und hinter der Bühne", und manchmal bin ich hinter der Bühne viel mehr außer Kontrolle als auf der Bühne. Die Leute wissen manchmal nicht ob ich freundlich oder fies bin, und ich bin beides. Ich gebe das zurück, was Du mir gibst. Ich denke das ist etwas das, als ich begann die Idee von Marilyn Manson zu formen, es war zu der Zeit als Talkshows zur Hauptware amerikanischen Entertainments wurden, und jeder Sender den es gab, hatte Interviews mit Massenmördern. Und dann gab es Geschichten über gestorbene Berühmtheiten, und diese zwei Sachen wurden miteinander verschlungen und erinnerte dann an Geschichten wie "Die schwarze Dahlie", mit dem Mädchen daß nach Hollywood kam um berühmt zu werden, und berühmt wurde, als sie starb. Oder in letzter Zeit, Columbine: diese Jugendlichen wollten berühmt sein, weil sie als Nobodies angesehen wurden. Und sie haben bekommen was sie wollten, die Medien haben es ihnen gegeben. Das war als ich das erste Mal Dinge in Marilyn Monroe gesehen habe die mich wirklich interessierten, weil es so viel Tragödien hinter der Schönheit gab. Ich denke so viele Leute haben das übersehen weil sie sie später entmenschlicht haben, zu einem Produkt auf einem T-shirt das auf dem Hollywood Boulevard verkauft wird oder so. Und dann, zur selben Zeit, sah ich Charles Manson in Interviews wie er all diese Sachen sagte; es machte ´69 Sinn und es machte ´96 Sinn und es macht heute Sinn. Er sagte eine Menge Sachen die ich auch immer wieder sagte und ich denke er vermittelt dieselbe Idee, daß er ein Spiegelbild der Kultur ist. Wie kann man - wie kann Amerika etwas hassen was es selbst kreiert hat. Das ist wie auf seine eigene Scheisse sauer zu sein. Du hättest halt etwas anderes essen sollen. All das braute sich halt irgendwie in meinem Kopf zusammen, und wenn du in dieser Position bist daß du 19 oder 20 wirst und dich entscheiden mußt was du sein wirst wenn du erwachsen bist, da habe ich rausgefunden daß ich nicht erwachsen werden möchte, ich möchte Peter Pan sein. Also habe ich mich entschieden eine Welt zu schaffen in der ich nicht nach irgendjemandes Regeln spielen muß, und Marilyn Monroe und Charles Manson waren die zwei Dinge die diese Welt erklärten. Phonetisch ist es wie Abracadabra; man kennt Manson bei seinem Nachnamen, man kennt Marilyn bei ihrem Vornamen und es passt einfach zusammen wie "Mickey Mouse". Es sagt alles; du sagst "Marilyn Manson" und es braucht keine Erklärung. Es beschwört solche Bilder herauf, egal aus welchem Land du kommst. Es ist sehr amerikanisch, aber gleichzeitig denke ich wie ein Europäer und mein Grund diesen Namen zu wählen ist gleichzeitig eine Feier und eine herbe Kritik an Amerika. Und das kreiert diesen ganzen Widerspruch auf dem ich gedeihe. Wie das arbeiten mit deinem Vater, das arbeiten mit Tim Skold, jetzt ein Mitglied der Band, und er ist aus Schweden. Ich denke daß europäische Künstler meine Verständnis der amerikanischen Kultur schätzen, weil ich sie vom Standpunkt eines Outsiders betrachte. Ich wurde immer wie ein Außenseiter behandelt und deswegen hasse ich Amerika nicht, deswegen liebe ich Amerika auch nicht, deswegen betrachte ich es einfach als das was es ist. In gewisser Weise Teil des Problems und Teil der Lösung, alles sein was man sein kann ist unterhaltsam inmitten drin weil es keine endgültige Antwort gibt - sei also nur Teil der Show. Ich möchte nicht im Publikum sein, ich möchte auf der Bühne sein. Und mit dem was ich jetzt tue, möchte ich nicht auf der Bühne sein, ich möchte daß jeder Teil der Show ist.

Cyril Helnwein: Eine der ersten Stories die Du als Journalist geschrieben hast, war als Brian Warner über Marilyn Manson.

Marilyn Manson: Das war auch Teil, seltsamerweise, was ich tief in meinem Herzen glaubte, ich wußte daß ich hier sein würde, zu dem was ich jetzt bin. Aber in der anfänglichen Unsicherheit von "was mache ich ab jetzt mit meinem Leben", dachte ich fast ich könnte eine geheime Identität haben. Ich dachte ich könnte vielleicht weiterhin Journalist sein und möglicherweise einen guten Job beim Rolling Stone oder so was albernes bekommen, und ich startete diese Band und plötzlich dachte ich "naja, niemand weiß wirklich wer ich bin, ich hab hier keine Freunde, warum schreib ich eigentlich nicht diesen Artikel, warum ruf ich nicht diese ganzen Plattenfirmen an, daß ich Artikel über ihre Bands schreibe und sage 'hey, ich hab hier diese großartige Band von der ich gehört habe - Marilyn Manson, würdet ihr sie unter Vertrag nehmen'." Es funktionierte eine Zeit lang, bis ich nicht mehr zwei Personen sein wollte; ich wollte nur eine Person sein. Es ging nicht darum eine andere Person zu sein, ich wollte es nur auf eine Sache eingrenzen.

Cyril Helnwein: Würdest Du lieber von Haien gefressen werden oder tödliche Gifte eingespritzt bekommen, wenn Du dich zwischen diesen beiden entscheiden müßtest?

Marilyn Manson: [lacht] Ich denke ich hatte schon genug tödliche Gifte, auf täglicher Basis, zwischen Absinth und allem anderem. Ich habe eine große Angst vor dem Ozean und Haien. Ich lebte in Florida und ging selten in die Nähe des Ozeans, denn als Kind machte mir der Film "Der weiße Hai" wirklich Angst. Du hast mich zuvor gefragt woher meine Inspirationen kommen; für mich kommt alles aus Filmen, es ist meine Inspiration für alles. Und das ist der Grund, denke ich, weswegen ich fähig bin bei etwas Regie zu führen mit der Freiheit es nicht für den öffentlichen Konsum zu kreieren, nicht für das Verlangen des Konsumenten arbeitend - sondern es mit künstlerischer Zielsetzung zu kreieren. Das ist der Punkt an dem ich glücklich bin. Das ist es was ich am Malen mag - denn als ich diese Gemälde machte dachte ich nicht "Ich frage mich, ob die Leute es mögen werden", "Ich frage mich, ob jemand sie kaufen wird", "denkst Du ich sollte mehr von dieser Art malen, weil es populärer sein wird?" Ich malte, weil es mich ruhig machte und es mich vergnügte. Einige der Gemälde waren Geschenke für andere Leute und ich fühlte mich gut, jemandem ein Geschenk zu geben. Das war eine nette Freiheit als Künstler, denn als Musiker kreiert man eine Familie von Fans, und es ist als ob man eine Mutter wäre, wenn man anfängt seine Kinder jeden Sonntag mit etwas bestimmtem zu füttern, muß man weitermachen sie zu füttern, oder sie werden sauer oder sie wollen ausgehen und bei McDonalds essen. [Lacht] Also als Musiker, in der Musik, muß ich die Wünsche meiner Fans berücksichtigen, aber ich möchte daß sie mit mir wachsen, also möchte ich daß sie Veränderungen akzeptieren. Aber ich möchte gleichzeitig nicht maßlos und arrogant sein und ihre Treue im Stich lassen. Es ist also eine harte, manchmal sehr deprimierende Linie die man zieht, und für jemanden wie mich, der sich ständig verändert und die Form ändert, ist es hart die Dinge am Laufen zu halten, und sich aber auch in einer schnellebigen Kultur zu entfalten, in der Dinge schnell vergessen werden - manchmal bevor man sich an sie erinnert. Ich bin stolz, daß ich imstande bin in der Musikindustrie so lange zu existieren, denn die meisten Leute sind es nicht.

Cyril Helnwein: Das bringt mich sozusagen zu der nächsten Frage - jedes Album daß Du produziert hast, hat seinen eigenen drastisch verschiedenen Stil, Haltung und Vibe, und es ist doch einfach als Marilyn Manson erkennbar. Denkst Du es könnte Dich jemals langweilen so etwas spezifisch zu tun, und etwas vollkommen anderes machen - vielleicht eine Boy-Band starten oder so etwas?

Marilyn Manson: Nun, ich mag diesen Filmmusik Job. Als ich dazu kam "Resident Evil" zu machen, vermeideten wir es absichtlich so wie Marilyn Manson zu klingen, im Sinne eines Rocksongs. Wir wünschten uns Gitarren Elemente für die Filmmusik, aber wir benutzten sie auf eine kalte, mechanische, raue Art. Meine Zusammenarbeit mit Tim Skold war der Punkt an dem die Beziehung begann, während der Arbeit. Ich hatte viel Spaß das zu tun wegen dem was ich tat, sie hatten es schwer es zu definieren, wegen den verschiedenen Jobs, die verschiedene Leute tun; es gibt den Kompositeur der das traditionelle Streicher Arrangement macht, dann gibt es manchmal die Person die die Musik kontrolliert die von bereits existierenden Alben genommen wird, und dann gibt es den Sound Designer der Atmosphären kreiert und die beängstigenden und emotional-anflehenden Strukturen. Und ich wollte das alles machen, ich sah keinen Grund warum es mehr als eine Person geben sollte die sich darum kümmert, also hatten sie eine harte Zeit. Ich glaube ich gab ihnen mehr als sie erwarteten, und sie waren glücklich damit, ausser die andere Person die für den Job engagiert wurde, Marco Beltrami; er ist im klassischen Sinne sehr talentiert, er arbeitet sogar Dinge auf einem Blatt Papier aus. Unsere Musik war 80% von dem was auf dem Film war, aber da er der etablierte Komponist war, bekamen wir quasi die zweite Abrechnung dafür, aber ich denke wir haben bewiesen daß wir so eine Sache machen können, wir haben eine Menge Angebote bekommen. Ich habe gerade zugestimmt die Filmmusik für die Neuinterpretation von Texas Chainsaw Massacre zu machen, von der ich mir gedacht habe daß sie sehr abgedroschen und albern sein könnte, denn das erste Texas Chainsaw Massacre ist die Vorlage für alle Horror Filme - es ist der erste und der beste, würde ich sagen, angsteinflößende Film; psychologisch erschreckend, nicht nur ein Splatterfilm. Und die Sounds in der Filmmusik sind alle musiklos, kratzende und gezupfte Saiten, und solche Sachen. Ich habe sogar Sachen aus Texas Chainsaw Massacre gesampled, [lacht] aber ich habe sie genug geändert daß sie mich nicht jagen und verklagen. Also möchte ich es versuchen und es auf die gleiche Weise behandeln wie wenn ich es tue, und ich sagte es dem Regisseur als ich ein Meeting mit ihm hatte, er sagte "Was denkst du wie die Musik sein sollte?", und "Sollten wir einen Marilyn Manson Song in die End Credits packen?" und ich sagte daß es den Film ruinieren würde, denn sie versuchen diese Interpretation von Texas Chainsaw Massacre als die echte Story zu kreieren. Der Film den wir in den 70ern gesehen haben basierte auf einer wahren Geschichte und dieses ist nun die echte Geschichte, und das ist es was ihm einen interessanten Dreh gibt, und ich mag es und las das Drehbuch und denke, wenn der Regisseur alles richtig macht, kann ich mit der Musik einen sehr angsteinflößenden Film machen. Und sie sagten, "Was wirst du mit der Musik machen?" und ich sagte, "die Leute werden mich wirklich dafür bezahlen Stille zu schaffen, denn ich denke die Abwesenheit von Musik ist meistens am effektivsten". Einige der besten Filme beinhalten fast keine Musik.

Cyril Helnwein: Wenn Du eine Person von dieser Erde weg wünschen könntest - überhaupt nicht existiert zu haben, in der Vergangenheit oder Gegenwart, wer würde es sein?

Marilyn Manson: Das ist schwer - jeder hat seinen eigenen Zweck. Jede Person die mir Leid zugefügt hat - die Wunde die sie verursachten wurde mit einem Song oder sonst etwas bandagiert. Ich würde ihnen nicht dafür danken, aber ich denke nicht daß ich dieselbe Person wäre. Aber vielleicht, wenn ich ausserhalb meiner persönlichen Existenz schaue... jemand der irgendwie ruiniert hat, daß Dinge funktionieren... hmmm.... Das ist schwer, schwer, schwer. Ich vermute Adam; dann wäre niemand von uns hier. [lacht]

Cyril Helnwein: Wenn die Zensur in Amerika nicht so stark wäre, verglichen mit Europa zum Beispiel, hättest Du mehr provokative oder mehr extravagante Dinge getan, und wo ziehst du deine eigene Linie?

Marilyn Manson: In Europa gibt es eine andere Zensur als in Amerika. Amerika hat eine Menge Blockaden bzgl. Sex, aber sie verkaufen es und beuten es endlos aus, aber sie sind beschämt darüber, das ist der Punkt wo die Zensur einsetzt. Amerika ist beschämt über sich selbst, Europa dagegen nicht. Und die sexuelle Scham ist der Ursprung - jeder Freudsche, Youngsche, Psychiater, Psychologe, wird dir erzählen daß es alles daher stammt - amerikanisches Christentum und die Scham die es produziert. Aber es gibt eine Menge politische Zensur in Europa; die Arbeit deines Vaters (Gottfried Helnwein) verursacht sehr viel Ärger, genau wie meine, seltsame Sachen in Japan zum Beispiel, das Cover des "Mechanical Animals" Albums wurde zensiert - aber nicht weil ich nackt war, sondern weil ich 6 Finger hatte und sie sehr empfindlich auf physische Deformationen reagieren. Ich sagte, "und was ist mit dem Rest von dem..." [zeigt auf seinen Körper] und so, es gibt halt solche skurrilen Dinge. Es gab keine Erlaubnis für religiöse Kleidung oder irgendwelche Bezüge auf Religion als wir in Warschau auf der Bühne spielten. Anstatt die Show abzusagen und die Fans zu enttäuschen oder die Show zu ändern, spielten wir andere Songs. Auf der DVD die erscheint gibt es einige Teile von dem Konzert, wo wir ein paar Sachen machten, die wir nur einmal spielten. Hier dagegen wollen sie mich festnehmen weil ich meinen Arsch zeige oder was auch immer, aber sie verkaufen "Girls Gone Wild" Videokassetten. Das ist die Welt in der wir leben. Es muß Zensur geben, denn es muß Grenzen geben, damit man diese dann überschreiten kann.

Cyril Helnwein: Das ist wahr. Gibt es einen Punkt an dem Du deine eigene persönliche Grenze bei Dingen hast?

Marilyn Manson: Absolut, alles was ich gemacht habe liegt innerhalb meiner Grenzen, und meine Grenzen beziehen sich oftmals mehr darauf, Sachen aus dem falschen Grund zu tun. Was ich am meisten hasse - mehr als Zensur, mehr als was die Regierung oder MTV oder Plattenfirmen dir erzählen was du "nicht tun kannst" - ist wenn Bands; Musiker, Künstler, wie auch immer sie sich nennen wollen, sich selbst zensieren, um Erfolg zu haben.

Cyril Helnwein: Kompromisse machen?

Marilyn Manson: Nun, keine Kompromisse machen nach begangener Tat. Ich denke jeder muß das tun, um das größere Bild zu sehen. Als Künstler mußt du den Kompromiss finden, mit dem du leben kannst. Zum Beispiel hat mein neues Album eine Menge Songs die sie als Singles für das Radio ansehen, und ich muß vielleicht ein paar Obszönitäten zensieren, damit sie im Radio gespielt werden. Aber wenn ich, während ich den Song schrieb, gesagt hätte "Also das ist wirklich catchy", "Vielleicht sollte ich dieses Wort nicht hier einfügen", dann ist es die falsche Sache. Das ist der Punkt an dem du dich verkaufst, wenn du deine Kreation in Erwartung von Erfolg oder finanziellem Erfolg zensierst. Jeder muß seine Arbeit in die Welt einpassen nachdem sie kreiert wurde. Das ist immer noch Teil der Kreation, ich denke nicht daß es unbedingt Zensur ist - es bedeutet quasi Sachen innerhalb der Grenze zu platzieren. Das ist Teil davon ein Künstler zu sein und erfolgreich sein zu wollen, für mich geht es dabei nicht so sehr um Geld als darum soviel Leute wie möglich hören und sehen zu lassen was ich tue. Und man kann sich leicht selber im Weg stehen, wenn man keine bestimmten Kompromisse macht, die letztlich das bessere Ergebnis bringen.

Cyril Helnwein: Richtig. Wann hast Du zuletzt eine Seifenoper geguckt, und welche war es?

Marilyn Manson: Ich denke die heutigen Seifenopern sind diese Reality-TV Shows. Ich denke Teil davon ist die Faulheit keine Schauspieler engagieren zu wollen, und Teil davon ist der Voyeurismus - wofür das Internet teilweise verantwortlich ist, und es gibt ein wirklich gefährliches Element in der Kultur das sich entwickelt, das ausgestanzt werden muß und von dem ich kein Teil sein werde, und das ist das interaktive Element von Sachen wie TRL oder wenn du auf MTV etwas wie "Britney Spears wählt aus was sie tragen wird, schreib und hilf ihr sich zu entscheiden" guckst, oder "Wir sind im Studio und schreiben unseren Song, hier ist ein Teil, sag uns was du denkst". Wenn der Künstler anfängt, sich vom Publikum beim Schaffensprozess helfen zu lassen, dann ist die Kunst zerstört. Das ist etwas sehr anderes als zu versuchen, dein Publikum zufriedenzustellen, aber es entwickelt sich eine Kultur in der - wie diese Seifenopern, das sind nicht wirklich Schauspieler, das ist nur echtes Leben - es ist eine Kultur in der eventuell, wegen all dem und Videospielen und der Möglichkeit animierte Filme zu machen, die so echt aussehen - daß es den Künstler eliminiert. Es ist keine Angst, oder meine Angst auszusterben, es ist eine Angst davor, das Basiselement zu entfernen, um das sich eigentlich alles dreht. Sicher, ich benutze einen Computer um Musik aufzunehmen, und wir benutzen einen Computer um Sounds zu erstellen und solche Sachen, aber du mußt fähig sein immer noch einen Stift und Papier zu haben um etwas zu machen das lohnenswert ist. Vielleicht endet es so, daß es sich seber tötet; Kinder sind so fordernd geworden, denn es ist diese ganze gib-einen-Finger-nimm-die-ganze-Hand Sache, wenn du Leute erstmal Entscheidungen treffen lässt, wo sie - oder du gehst auf eine Website und da ist eine Abstimmung - "Wen magst du lieber", "Welcher Song sollte deiner Meinung nach der nächste Song sein der von Christina Aguilera oder Marilyn Manson erscheint" oder wer es auch immer ist, und jeder stimmt ab. Vielleicht entsteht dadurch solch eine Nachfrage, daß die Künstler einfach... es wird die Leute einfach dazu bringen, nicht kreativ sein zu wollen. Es fördert einfach einen Mangel an Kreativität. Und im Internet gibt es eine Menge Leute die sich einfach anonym zurücklehnen können, und sagen "Das ist scheisse, ich kann das besser". Die Aufgabe sollte sein, "Also, mach es besser". Das ist warum jeder der versucht jemandes Kunst zu kritisieren, meine oder jemand anderes, es kreiert ein Umfeld das wahrhaftig ein Produkt des Journalismus ist. Du kannst nicht definieren was etwas ist, du kannst sagen daß du es magst oder daß du es nicht magst, aber du kannst es nicht auseinander nehmen.

Cyril Helnwein: Es hat sowieso immer jeder seine eigene Meinung.

Marilyn Manson: Es hat alles seine eigene Bedeutung. Das ist die grundlegende Idee des Lebens als Kunst und alles davon jederzeit zu geniessen; einen Film spielen, immer in einem Film sein. Vielleicht habe ich unrecht; vielleicht finde ich eines Tages raus daß ich ein Schauspieler bin, der jemand anderes spielt. Als ob ich einen großen Gedächtnisschwund hätte und niemand sagt es mir.

Cyril Helnwein: Das wäre allerdings eine Feststellung... Du wurdest von den Zeigefinger-Medien oft ungerechterweise für Dinge angeklagt, für die Du, ich weiß nicht ob schuldig das richtige Wort ist, aber definitiv nichts mit zu tun hattest - zum Beispiel die Columbine Jungs. Warum, denkst Du, mögen sie gerade Dich als einen Sündenbock, und denkst Du daß es vielleicht ein Zeichen für deine Originalität und deinen Erfolg als Künstler ist?

Marilyn Manson: Ich denke ich hatte mit Columbine soviel zu tun wie jede andere Person auch, als Teil der amerikanischen Kultur. Aber ich denke das ist der Grund dafür warum ich "Crop Failure" als Titel des Gemäldes von Harris und Klebold gewählt habe. Ich denke man muß den Farmern die Schuld geben wenn die Blumen nicht richtig wachsen, man kann nicht dem Grundherren die Schuld geben der das Grundstück besitzt, oder dem Mädchen das den Blumenstrauß bekommt. Oder dem Mann der ihn für sie kauft. Ich denke wenn die Leute etwas als schockierend bezeichnen wollen oder wenn sie es wie auch immer nennen wollen - ich denke es ist fauler Journalismus wenn die Leute mich immer als "shock rocker" bezeichnen - es ist ein ermüdender, ermüdender Begriff. Da ich nicht denke daß ich schockierend bin, habe ich auch nicht versucht schockierend zu sein. Wenn ich schockierend bin und deine Aufmerksamkeit habe, dann bedeutet das daß ich gut bin, denn es gibt so viel da draußen - wenn etwas deine Aufmerksamkeit erregt, dann ist es gut. Ich denke das ist die Quintessenz, und wenn es anhält, so lange wie ich, dann bedeutet das daß ich wirklich gut bin und stolz darauf sein sollte. Und ich kann das sagen ohne arrogant zu sein, ich denke es ist einfach eine Tatsache daß wir in einer Welt voll mit mittelmäßigen Dingen leben, und ich versuche die Messlatte höher anzusetzen mit allem was ich tue und ich versuche mit großartigen Menschen zu arbeiten und das Bedürfnis für eine größere Ästhetik zurückzubringen und einzuführen, in der Idee von Golden Age Of Grotesque. Das ist offensichtlich der Grund dafür warum ich mit deinem Vater arbeite, und versuche mit anderen gleichgesinnten Leuten zu kollaborieren die ebenfalls die Welt so aufregend haben wollen, wie sie in Weimar-Berlin oder den 70ern in New York war, oder Mode, und Musik und Kunst war eher dekadent und platzte aus sämtlichen Nähten, und dann sieht man einfach jeden in Angst fortlaufen und wie sie versuchen es alles zu stoppen. Es macht immer Spaß neue Sachen anzuzetteln. Ich baue etwas auf, und jemand anderes versucht es abzubauen.

Cyril Helnwein: Erzähl uns deinen besten Partywitz, oder einen Witz oder Streich den Du jemandem gespielt hast.

Marilyn Manson: Davon gibts eine Menge, ich denke einer meiner Favoriten war sehr fies. Da war ein Mädchen in einer Hotelbar, während wir auf Tour waren, die zu mir kam während ich einfach versuchte mit meinen Freunden und der Band zu entspannen. Sie war wirklich unausstehlich; fragte mich wer ich wäre, obwohl ganz klar war daß sie wußte wer ich war. Ich sagte es ihr, und dann antwortete sie daß sie kein Fan wäre und ich sagte, "Ok, das ist in Ordnung" und dann setzte sie sich und belästigte mich weiter und erzählte mir wie sehr es sie überhaupt nicht interessierte wer ich bin. Und ich sagte, "Ok, dann geh halt" und später ging ich zurück auf mein Zimmer, und sie hat irgendwie herausgefunden in welchem Raum ich bin und klopfte an meine Tür. Ich war kürzlich in einem Detektiv Laden, in dem sie Spionausrüstungen und ähnliches, und auch Scherzartikel verkauften, und ich kaufte diesen Behälter mit Flüssigkeit, mit dem Namen "The Evacuator" - welcher sagte daß man einige Tropfen in den Drink von jemandem tut, und sie sich daraufhin sofort einscheissen, und daß man nicht zu viel rein tun sollte, denn das könnte im Krankenhaus enden. Nun, ich füllte die gesamte Flasche in ein Glas und sagte "Oh, hallo - freut mich sehr Dich wiederzusehen, warum kommst Du nicht rein und nimmst einen Drink", dann gab ich ihr das Glas. Sie ging zurück zu ihrem Zimmer, und ihre Freundin klopfte an meine Tür, weckte mich auf, und meinen Bodyguard eine Tür weiter. "Hast Du meine Freundin gesehen, ist sie bei Dir?" "Nein", sagte ich, "sie ist nicht bei mir". "Oh, ich kann nicht in mein Zimmer, die Tür ist verschlossen." Also mußten sie die Tür aufbrechen und sie fanden sie nackt auf dem Bett, voll mit Scheisse. Sie hatte sich betrunken, schlief ein und schiss sich ein.

Cyril Helnwein: Oh nein!

Marilyn Manson: Ich fand es recht amüsierend. [lacht]

Cyril Helnwein: Sie bekam was sie verdiente, nehme ich an.

Marilyn Manson: Yea.

Cyril Helnwein: Du hast oft und offen deinen illegalen Drogenkonsum zugegeben. Ging es mehr darum, künstlerisch zu experimentieren und die Kreativität zu unterstützen, oder mehr um dein persönliches Vergnügen?

Marilyn Manson: Ich denke Drogen benutzt man am besten um Spaß zu haben, sich daran zu erfreuen, sich locker zu machen. Der schlechteste Grund Drogen zu nehmen ist, wenn man nicht in der Lage ist mit Depressionen oder ähnlichem umzugehen, oder zur Selbstzerstörung. Ich bin durch Phasen extremer Hochs und Tiefs gegangen, und ich fühle, besonders in dieser Woche, letzte Woche fühlte ich mich deprimiert - es waren nicht wirklich Drogen oder so, aber es gab eine kleine Besorgnis darüber was die Leute - du weißt schon, sie werden meine Gemälde sehen. Nicht daß es viel ausmacht, aber natürlich hat jeder - besonders ich, Gefühle. Ich meine, was die Leute an mir unterschätzen ist, wie feinfühlig ich bin. Und weil ich so feinfühlig bin, muß ich so dramatisch sein, und es ist der Grund dafür warum ich so eine Show aufbauen muß. Aber diese Woche fühle ich mich eher positiv, ich habe die Brücke zum nächsten Level zu dem ich muß überquert, und ich bin zuversichtlich daß dieses die beste Ära sein wird - dieses golden age - daß zu mir kommt, und wie ich dieses nächste Album starte, denke ich, wird den Leuten exakt zeigen zu was ich fähig bin. Jeder der mich vorher unterschätzt hat, wird es jetzt besser wissen. Also denke ich, alle jetzigen Drogen sind Teil der Dekadenz und des locker machens. Ich denke Absinth ist wahrscheinlich mein größtes Laster, wenn ich eines aussuchen müßte, denn ich mag es einfach. Es schmeckt gut und bringt mich dazu zu kreieren, also ich würde nicht gerade sagen es bringt mich dazu, aber es hat eine Menge meiner besten Arbeiten inspiriert - eine Menge meiner Gemälde, eine Menge meines Schreibens. Es zapft an, stößt Löcher in die Schläfe oder den Lobus, und läßt einige Dämonen raus die sich dort versteckten. Also ist es eine erfreuende, keine deprimierende Sache. Ich war ein miserabler Trinker in den ersten frühen Tagen der Selbstzerstörung, aber nun bin ich eine sehr viel glücklichere Person mit einem anderen Ansatz.

Cyril Helnwein: Zwei deiner Gemälde, die wahrscheinlich zu meinen Favorite zählen, scheinen sehr vom Absinth inspiriert zu sein. Eines ist von William Burroughs denke ich, wie du gerne als alter Mann aussehen würdest; das andere ist "The Enabler".

Marilyn Manson: Das ist mein Freund Jonathan. Ja, ich denke ich mag die Farbe Grün auch wirklich, also bin ich vielleicht teilweise dort hingezogen. Das "When I Get Old" Gemälde - es wurde tatsächlich etwas Absinth darin benutzt. In einigen von ihnen, als ich malte, hatte ich meinen Drink direkt bei meiner Farbschale stehen, und ich tauchte den Pinsel in das falsche Glas, also mischte es sich in dem Drink, ich malte einfach damit weil es ein schönes Grün ergibt. Ich danke Dir also, diese zwei gehören auch zu meinen Favoriten.

Cyril Helnwein: Ok, ich denke Du hast meine nächste Frage quasi schon beantwortet, aber vielleicht gibt es noch was anderes dazu - gibt es eine Sache die Dir ein besonderes Gefühl von Hass, Angst oder Ekel gibt?

Marilyn Manson: Ich vermute da gibt es mehr als eine Sache - obwohl es ok ist zu faulenzen und Tage frei zu nehmen - vermute ich daß Faulheit oder ein Mangel an Antrieb etwas zu erreichen, mich am meisten anwidert. Das könnte daran liegen daß ich so eine extreme Arbeitsmoral habe, oder eher, kreativen Impuls - denn ich sehe es nicht gerne so an, daß ich arbeite. Ich muß ständig irgendetwas tun. Es war heute schwer für mich, mich nicht hinzusetzen und zu malen, denn ich war so glücklich mit der Show; ich wollte ein neues Bild meiner Katze malen. Ich wollte so viele Sachen malen, aber ich habe mich überzeugt einfach zu entspannen und mich mit Dir zu treffen und dieses Interview zu machen, und auszugehen; das Haus zu verlassen und zu Abend zu essen, was selten bei mir vorkommt. Aber ich finde es schwer, und das ist der Grund warum es für mich schwer ist Leute zum kollaborieren zu finden, und bestimmte Freunde oder Bandmitglieder in meinem Leben zu behalten, denn indem es meine Vision ist, denke ich daß ich gewillt bin es mit jedem zu teilen, der die gleichen Ambitionen und den Antrieb hat wie ich. Ich finde das besonders bei Tim, der mir geholfen hat dieses Album zu produzieren, und mich ermutigt hat Sachen zu tun, von denen ich schon vergessen hatte daß ich sie gerne tue. Jeder der nichts kreieren will oder sich mit Mittelmäßigkeit zufrieden gibt, oder jeder der sein Talent als selbstverständlich ansieht und es verrotten lässt, was immer es auch sein mag. Selbst wenn es Rasenmähen wäre oder Wände anzustreichen, was immer es sein mag. Ich denke das ist die Sache die mich am meisten anwidert. Ich bin auf keinen Fall eine unfreundliche Person; ich tue alles für die Leute die ich liebe. Ich unterstütze meine Eltern, sie sind beide nicht mehr berufstätig und bekommen keine Rente. Ich unterstütze sie vollkommen; ich sorge mich um jeden der mir wichtig ist. Aber du wirst mich nicht sehen, wie ich dem Penner auf der Straße auch nur zehn Cent gebe. Aber ich denke das ist eigentlich Teil einer Metapher der Geschichte die dein Vater und ich schaffen, und die Idee wie liberaler Idealismus oft der Niedergang Amerikas ist; wenn du die Leute glauben läßt daß es in Ordnung ist die Hände auszustrecken und von den anderen Leuten, die wirklich hart arbeiten um da zu sein wo sie sind, zu erwarten dir etwas zu geben.

Cyril Helnwein: Das erzeugt auch weitere Kriminalität.

Marilyn Manson: Ja, und eine Menge Leute glauben es wären alles böse amerikanische Kapitalisten, aber es ist leicht sich darüber zu beklagen wenn man arm ist und es ist leicht zu hassen wenn du reich bist. Ich sehe mich selbst nicht als extrem reich an, denn ich denke ich habe für jeden Cent den ich verdient habe hart gearbeitet. Also schätze ich alles was ich besitze und ich gebe mein Geld nicht blödsinnig aus, oder etwas in der Richtung.

Cyril Helnwein: Ich denke Du hast auch die nächste Frage schon beantwortet, aber vielleicht möchtest Du noch etwas hinzufügen. Gibt es eine Sache die Dich besonders glücklich und zufrieden macht, oder dir Freude bereitet?

Marilyn Manson: Mehrere Sachen; meine Katze und ich haben eine sehr nette Beziehung, sie beruhigt mich, malen macht mich sehr glücklich, ein Album zu vollenden macht mich sehr glücklich und ein Album zu erschaffen macht mich sehr glücklich. Der mittlere Prozess es zu fertigzustellen ist sehr stressig. Anal Sex, gute Filme, bei der Frau zu sein die ich liebe - das hat wieder mit dem Anal Sex zu tun, ich möchte nicht daß Du denkst daß es eine homosexuelle Anspielung war. Und ich denke die Möglichkeit zu haben sich zu entspannen so wie heute, nach dem Stress der Kunstausstellung, und Leute die mir ehrlich sagen, "Hey, ich mag was Du gemacht hast" und nicht nur meinen Arsch küssen und mir erzählen was ich hören will. Ich fühle daß ich etwas erreicht habe, ich bin eine bescheidene Person, ich bin sehr zuversichtlich und ich denke ich mache das beste was ich machen kann. Nun können die Leute debattieren ob ich der beste bin den es gibt, ich weiß daß ich der beste bin der ich sein kann. Und das ist das beste das irgendjemand sein kann.

Cyril Helnwein: Großartig, das umschließt eigentlich alles für mich. Sehr vielen Dank noch einmal für deine Zeit. Gibt es noch etwas daß Du gerne sagen oder fragen möchtest?

Marilyn Manson: Ich denke die Leute sollten einfach erwarten daß alles was sie bis jetzt von mir gesehen und gehört haben sehr zahm ist, in Vergleich zu dem, was kommen wird.

Cyril Helnwein: Ich freue mich darauf.





Marilyn Manson interview by Cyril Helnwein in Italian:

Cyril Helnwein: Grazie per avermi concesso un pò del tuo tempo; è un onore intervistarti.

Marilyn Manson: Grazie. Certo, chiunque leggerà quest'intervista non sa quanto è stato importante il nostro incontro. Mi hai introdotto a tuo padre (Gottfried Henlwein)

Cyril Helnwein: Sono veramente emozionato! Tu sei il mio artista preferito!

Marilyn Manson: Te ne sono grato.... tu mi hai agganciato.

Cyril Helnwein: Ecco la mia prima domanda. Se fosse l'ultimo giorno sulla terra, che vorresti fare?

Marilyn Manson: Non un'intervista, sicuro! Farei un concerto. Ho sempre detto che mi piacerebbe che le cose finissero così. La mia morte come un concerto; però è difficile decidere. Una parte di me vorrebbe andare in giro ad ammazzare tutti quelli che mi hanno fottuto nel tempo, mentre un'altra parte vorrebbe rimanere tranquillo a casa con i propri animali e la sua ragazza. Dipende tutto da che giorno sarà... oggi è una giornata tranquilla, quindi me ne starei a casa.

Cyril Helnwein: Non sei solo un cantante, ma anche un'artista, un produttore, un attore ed anche un pittore... Dove prendi tutta l'inspirazione?

Marilyn Manson: Ho sempre temuto di essere definito un "musicista", perchè voglio anche comporre e disegnare; di solito faccio arte come un bambino. Ho provato a far scrivere la mia mano e mi è piaciuto esprimermi in quel modo, anche se non mi è piaciuto parlare delle altre persone. Perciò, con il giornalismo non c'è stato praticamente niente. Ma il giornalismo è la radice di tutti i mali e di tutte le arti, in quanto si tratta solo di osservare e riportare agli altri. Ma non voglio essere considerato un intrattenitore solo perchè l'arte è divertente; quello che faccio qualche volta è divertente, qualche volte scatena il panico, altre volte invece ha a che fare con il sesso. Mi è piaciuta moltissimo la realizzazione di questi quadri, perchè avevo il pieno controllo di tutti i dettagli. La gente mi chiede sempre "Sei così anche nella vita reale?". A volte sono fuori controllo più nella vita quotidiana che sul palco. La gente non sa se sono carino o se sono cattivo. Sono entrambe le cose. Sono ciò che voi mi date. Quando nacque l'idea dei Marilyn Manson, erano dei tempi dove i talk show erano delle fondamenta nella cultura americana. Ogni canale intervistava serial killer e si parlava sempre degli assassinii delle celebrità. Storie come "The Black Dahlia", la ragazza che si recò ad Hollywood per diventare famosa e che lo diventò solo quando trovò la morte. Oppure il più recente Columbine. Questi ragazzi che volevano diventare famosi perchè considerati delle nullità. Ed ebbero ciò che cercavano. Marilyn Monroe mi interessò molto perchè c'erano molte cose oscure dietro la sua bellezza. La gente l'ha fatta diventare un prodotto commerciale, una t-shirt venduta ad Hollywood Boulevard. Allo stesso tempo sentivo Charles Manson che diceva tutte queste cose. Avevano un senso nel '69, avevano un senso nel '96, ed hanno ancora senso oggi. Diceva le stesse cose che avrei pensato di lì a poco. Come può l'America odiare ciò che ha creato? Ho scoperto che non voglio crescere più, voglio essere come Peter Pan. Così ho creato un mondo dove non dovevo stare alle regole di nessuno, dove Marilyn Monroe e Charles Manson era gli elementi che rappresentavano questo mondo. Foneticamente, è come dire "Abracadabra". Riconosci Marilyn dal suo nome, e riconosci Manson dal suo cognome... ed insieme suona come "Mickey Mouse". Dice tutto.... non ha bisogno di spiegazioni.... come Marilyn Manson. E' molto americano, anche se la penso come un europeo. Infatti la scelta di questo nome vuole essere una critica ed una celebrazione dell'America. Lavorare con tuo padre e gente come Tim Skold, membro europeo della band, aiuta a far capire che gli artisti europei apprezzano la mia visione della cultura americana, perchè mi considerano un outsider. Non amo l'America, ma non la odio nemmeno. Voglio vederla per ciò che realmente è. Voglio rendere partecipe la gente di ciò che faccio. Ed ora, con quello che sto realizzando, finalmente sarà così.

Cyril Helnwein: Una delle prime cose che hai scritto come giornalista fu in qualità di Brian Warner riguardo i Marilyn Manson.

Marilyn Manson: Nel profondo del mio cuore, sapevo che sarei arrivato a ciò che sono ora. Pensavo anche che avrei avuto una bella carriera anche come giornalista al Rolling Stone. Quando ho iniziato con la band pensavo "Nessuno sa chi realmente sono, qui non ho amici... perchè non scrivere un articolo?" Perchè non alzare il telefono e chiamare le case discografiche dicendo "Hey, ho questa band chiamata Marilyn Manson, volete scritturarla?" Funzionò fino a quando io smisi di voler avere una doppia personalità; volevo essere una persona sola.

Cyril Helnwein: Preferiresti essere mangiato dagli squali o iniettarti di sostanze tossiche?

Marilyn Manson: (risata) Penso che faccio già abbastanza uso di sostanze tossiche quotidianamente, tra assenzio e affini. Ho una gran paura dell'oceano e degli squali. Ho vissuto in Florida e non mi sono mai avvicinato più di tanto al mare, visto che il film "Lo Squalo" mi ha impressionato da bambino. Prima mi hai chiesto da dove veniva la mia ispirazione, e i film sono una buona fonte per me. E' la mia fonte per qualsiasi cosa. Questo è il perchè riesco a collegare tutto alla libertà e non all'uso consumistico delle cose. Sono felice con questi presupposti. Mi piace anche nei miei quadri. Perchè quando disegno non penso "Chissà se piacerà alla gente" o "Chissà se qualcuno comprerà mai questo quadro." Disegno perchè mi rilassa e mi diverte. Alcuni dei quadri sono stati dei regali per dei miei amici. Come musicista, si crea una famiglia con i fans. E' come essere una madre. Se si inizia a dare a mangiare ai propri figli ogni Domenica, devi continuare per sempre, altrimenti loro impazziscono col McDonald. (risata) Così io voglio che i miei fan crescano con me e cerco di realizzare i loro desideri. Voglio che loro accettino il mio cambiamento, ma allo stesso tempo non voglio che loro perdano la propria personalità. E' un cammino, a volte molto deprimente. Per tipi come, che cambiano molto spesso, è difficile mandare avanti tutti i progetti. Sono fiero di essere riuscito a sopravvivere nel mondo della musica per così tanto tempo, perchè molta gente non ci riesce.

Cyril Helnwein: Questo mi porta alla prossima domanda.... ogni album ha avuto un suo stile differente. Pensi di annoiarti di questo genere musicale e di cambiare magari in una boy band?

Marilyn Manson: Beh, mi piacciono molti i risultati di lavoro. Quando abbiamo realizzato la colonna sonora di Resident Evil, abbiamo evitato che ne uscisse qualcosa simile ai Marilyn Manson. Abbiamo inserito molte chitarre, ma in un modo molto freddo. La mia collaborazione con Tim Skold è nata in quel frangente. Ci volle molto tempo, in quanto ci sono molte persone che lavorano su questi tipi di progetti. C'è il compositore, che si occupa dell'arrangiamento tradizionale. Poi ci sono persone che visionano musiche prese da album già esistenti. Poi c'è il sound-designer, che crea le atmosfere. Ho voluto fare tutto io! Non vedevo per quale ragione dovessero essere coinvolte più persone per questi ruoli. Spero di avergli dato più di quanto si aspettassero. Anche se l'altra persona con cui ho collaborato per il film, Marco Beltrami, ha veramente del talento. Ha la mania di scrivere sempre le cose su carta. La musica che abbiamo prodotto insieme è l'80% di quello che appare nel film. Abbiamo avuto molte offerte. Ho appena accettato di interpretare il "Texas Chainsaw Massacre". Si tratta di un film horror di riferimento per tutti... è terrificante dal punto di vista psicologico. Ho anche campionato delle cose dal film (risata), ma le ho modificate in modo da non essere citato. Ho incontrato il regista e mi ha detto "Come pensi dovrebbero essere le musiche? Dovremmo mettere una canzone dei Marilyn Manson nei titoli di coda?" Ho risposto che questa cosa avrebbe rovinato il film perchè stanno cercando di interpretare il film come una storia vera. Il film uscito negli anni '70 era basato su una storia vera, mentre questa è la storia vera! Penso di dare al film, grazie alla mia musica, un tocco più spaventoso. Mi è stato chiesto "Cosa farai con la musica?" ed io ho risposto "La gente mi pagherà per creare il silenzio, perchè l'assenza di musica è la cosa che fa più effetto." Alcuni dei migliori film non hanno una colonna sonora.

Cyril Helnwein: Se tu potessi, che persona vorresti essere? Sia del passato che del futuro....

Marilyn Manson: Questa è dura. Ogni persona che mi ha fatto del male. Non le ringrazio, ma non so se vorrei trovarmi nei loro corpi. Forse qualcuno che ha rovinato un meccanismo funzionante.... mmmmmm.... Penso Adamo; altrimenti nessuno di noi sarebbe qui (risata).

Cyril Helnwein: Se la censura in America non fosse così dura, rispetto l'Europa per esempio, avresti fatto delle cose ancora più provocanti?

Marilyn Manson: C'è differenza tra la censura in Europa e in America. L'America è molto dura col sesso, anche se lo vendono in continuazione dappertutto. L'America si vergogna molto di sè stessa, mentre l'Europa no. E questa vergogna sessuale - ogni Freudiano, psichiatra, psicologo vi dirà che questo è l'origine di tutto - è la base dell'America Cristiana. Però in Europa c'è molta censura politica. In Giappone la copertina di Mechanical Animals è stata censurata, ma non perchè ero nudo. Ma perchè avevo sei dita. Sono molto duri con le deformazioni fisiche. Non ho potuto fare alcuna allusione religiosa quando sono andato a Varsavia. Per non scontentare i fan e disertare il concerto, abbiamo suonato altre canzoni. Sul DVD ci sono scene di canzoni che non avevano suonato molto spesso. In America la gente vuole arrestarmi perchè mostro il mio culo, ma poi vendono le VHS di Girls Gone Wild. Questo è il mondo in cui viviamo.

Cyril Helnwein: Vero. c'è un limite che ti sei posto?

Marilyn Manson: Assolutamente. Ogni cosa che ho fatto è stat nei limiti. La cosa che odio di più - più del governo, di MTV e delle case discografiche - è quando un musicista si censura da solo per avere successo.

Cyril Helnwein: Una specie di compromesso.

Marilyn Manson: Non proprio dei compromessi. Per esempio, il mio nuovo album ha un sacco di canzoni che potrebbero essere passate in radio, ed io dovrei censurarle per far ciò. Ma se io, mentre scrivo una canzone, dicessi "Questa è una parolaccia.... meglio non metterla", allora è una cosa sbagliatissima. Questo succede quando ti vendi; quando ti autocensuri per i soldi o per il successo. Bisogna sviluppare il proprio lavoro restando nei limiti. Non ho mai fatto e mai farò dei compromessi!

Cyril Helnwein: Quando è stata l'ultima volta che hai visto una Soap Opera e cos'era?

Marilyn Manson: Penso che le soap opera di oggi sono i talk show. Si sta sviluppando una nuova cultura molto pericolosa, e non voglio esserne parte. Delle cose tipo TRL oppure quando guardi MTV e vedi "Aiuta Britney Spears a decidere che vestito indossare" oppure "Siamo in studio, fateci sapere che ne pensate." Quando un'artista chiede aiuto ai fan, vuol dire che si è distrutto. Ma si sta creando una base dove gli artisti verranno eliminati a causa della troppa tecnologia. Non è paura, o paura di estinguersi; ma paura di perdere i valori fondamentali della musica. Certo, anche io uso un computer per registrare, però devi anche essere capace di sapertela cavare senza quello. I bambini oggi crescono e chiedono molto. Una volta che lasci che sia la genbte a creare per te, la tua fantasia sarà perduta per sempre. Su Internet c'è molta gente che se ne sta comoda e dice "E' una merda. Io so fare di meglio." La sfida serve a migliorarsi. Perciò ogni volta che qualcuno critica il mio lavoro, o quello degli altri, dà vita a d un vero prodotto giornalistico. Non puoi sapere con precisione cos'è. Puoi dire che ti piace o non ti piace, ma non puoi metterlo da parte.

Cyril Helnwein: Ognuno ha sempre una propria opinione a riguardo.

Marilyn Manson: Questa è l'idea basilare dell'arte. Può essere che mi sbagli. Magari un giorno mi rendo contro che sono un attore che sta recitando. Come se avessi avuto una grande amnesia e nessuno mi ha avvertito.

Cyril Helnwein: Sei sempre stato accusato di cose di cui non hai colpa. Come il Columbine, per esempio. Perchè usano sempre te come capro espiatorio? Vuol dire che hai avuto successo come artista?

Marilyn Manson: Penso di aver avuto a che fare con il Columbine come qualsiasi americano, o una parte della cultura americana. Questa è la ragione per cui ho scelto "Crop Failure" come titolo del quadro dedicato agli assassini del Columbine. Penso che si debba incolpare il contadino se un fiore non cresce, non puoi incolpare il proprietario del campo. O la ragazza che prende il bouquet. o il ragazzo che lo compra per lei. Penso che sia un esempio di giornalismo quando la gente si riferisce a me come "shock rocker". Perchè non penso che io sia shoccante. Non ho mai provato a scioccare. Se sto scioccando ed ho la tua attenzione, vuol dire che sto facendo un buon lavoro. Il fatto è che viviamo in un mondo pieno di cose mediocri, ed io sto cercando di alzare il livello con quello che faccio. Cercando di riportare un desiderio per il piacere estetico in questa idea della Golden Age. Questo è il motivo per cui sto lavorando con tuo padre, e con tutti quelli che vogliono il mondo come la Berlino degli anni '30 o la New York degli anni '70. Moda, musica ed arte erano decadenti. Sto cercando di creare nuove cose, anche se qualcuno prova a buttarle giù.

Cyril Helnwein: Raccontaci un party che ti ha colpito o uno scherzo che hai fatto a qualcuno.

Marilyn Manson: Allora.... c'era una ragazza in un bar, mentre eravamo in tour, che si avvicnò a me mentre provavo a rilassarmi con gli altri. Era odiosa; mi chiese chi ero, ma si vedeva che mi aveva riconosciuto. Glielo dissi, e lei rispose che non era una mia fan. Le dissi "Ok". Si accomodò al mio fianco dicendo che non gliene fregava nulla di me. Allora le dissi "Allora vai via". Dopo me ne ritornai in camera, e lei era riuscita a scoprire in che camera alloggiassi e bussò alla porta. Ero stato in un negozio di "spionaggio" ed avevo comprato un liquido chiamato "L'evacuatore"; bastano poche gocce in un liquido, e la persona che le beve deve andare immediatamente al bagno. C'era scritto di non usarne troppe altrimenti si rischiava di andare all'ospedale. Versai l'intero flacone in un bicchiere e le dissi "Sono felice che tu sia tornata. Perchè non entri a bere qualcosa?" Così le diedi il bicchiere. Dopodiché se ne tornò in camera sua, e dopo un pò venne una sua amica chiedendomi se avessi visto la sua amica. Le dissi che non era con me e mi rispose che non riusciva ad entrare in camera perchè era chiusa a chiave. Sfondammo la porta e trovammo la tizia distesa sul letto, nuda e completamente circondata dalla merda! Si era ubriacata e dopo il liquido ha fatto il resto...

Cyril Helnwein: Oh no!

Marilyn Manson: E' stato divertentissimo!! (risate)

Cyril Helnwein: Ha avuto quello che si meritava

Marilyn Manson: Si.

Cyril Helnwein: Hai più volte ammesso di fare uso di droghe illegali. Serve per aumentare la tua creatività, o solo per un tuo piacere personale?

Marilyn Manson: Penso che la droga sia la cosa migliore se è utilizzata per divertirsi. Il peggior uso delle droghe è quando lo mischi con la depressione. Ho attraversato periodo molto felici, ma anche molto tristi, come la scorsa settimana. Ero molto preoccupato per i miei disegni e di cosa ne pensasse la gente. Non che me ne importasse molto, è solo che ognuno ha i suoi sentimenti. Voglio dire, se c'è una cosa che la gente sottovaluta di me è quanto sia sensibile. Perchè io sono molto sensibile... perciò cerco sempre di apparire drammatico. Ora sto molto meglio però. Il prossimo album mostrerà alla gente di cosa sono capace. Chiunque mi sottovalutava prima, si dovrà ricredere. Perciò penso che ogni droga fa parte del decadentismo. Penso che l'assenzio è il mio peggior vizio, se proprio ne devo scegliere uno, perchè mi piace! Mi fa stare bene, mi fa creare molto..... parecchi quadri sono stati progettati grazie all'assenzio. Negli anni scorsi ero un bevitore qualsiasi, ora invece sono felice.

Cyril Helnwein: Due dei tuoi disegni, che sono i miei preferiti, sembrano ispirati dall'assenzio. Si tratta di "Enabler" e di "Williamo Burroughs".

Marilyn Manson: E' il mio amico Jonathan. Mi piace molto il verde. Anche "When I get old" è ispirato dall'assenzio. Una volta, mentre stavo disegnando, ho intinto il pennello nel bicchiere d'assenzio pererrore, e ne è nato un bel mix.

Cyril Helnwein: Ci sono altre cose che ti creano sensi di felicità, disgusto o odio?

Marilyn Manson: Ce ne sono molte. Mi disgusta molto la pigrizia. Forse dipende dal fatto che ho un alto senso etico del lavoro... anche se quello che faccio lo considero più un divertimento. E' stata dura oggi non sedermi a disegnare, perchè ero molto felice per lo show. Volevo fare un nuovo ritratto della mia gatta. Volevo disegnare molte cose, ma mi sono convinto di rilassarmi un pò e fare quest'intervista con te, e poi uscirò; esco e vado a cenare, cosa molto rara per me. Ma è molto dura resistere a non lavorare... questo è il motivo per cui non riesco a mantenere amici o membri della band all'interno della mia vita privata. Penso sempre che tutti abbiamo le mie stesse ambizioni. Va bene molto con Tim; lui mi ha aiutato a produrre il disco, mi ha incoraggiato a fare cose che mi ero dimenticato. Non sopporto chi non vuole creare cose nuove o è soddisfatto nella sua mediocrità. E' una cosa che mi disgusta molto. Faccio qualsiasi cosa per le persone che amo. Aiuto i miei genitori. Sono entrambi in pensione e non hanno alcuna entrata. Li mantengo completamente. Mi prendo cura di chiunque mi stia a cuore. Ma non mi vedrai mai dare un centesimo ad un mendicante in mezzo alla strada. Ma penso che faccia parte della storia che io e tuo padre stiamo creando, e di come l'ideale liberale sia spesso la rovina dell'America.

Cyril Helnwein: Aumenta anche la criminalità.

Marilyn Manson: si. Molta gente abbatte tutto sul Capitalismo Americano... ma è facile dire così se sei povero, ed è difficile odiarlo se sei ricco! Non mi considero estremamente ricco, ma dico che ho lavorato duramente per ogni centesimo che ho guadagnato. Mi prendo cura di ogni cosa che possiedo, e non sperpero i miei soldi.

Cyril Helnwein: C'è qualcosa che ti rende felice?

Marilyn Manson: Molte cose. Con la mia gatta ho un rapporto stupendo. Mi fa stare calmo. Anche disegnare mi fa stare bene. Creare e finire un disco mi fa stare bene. Il sesso anale, i film buoni, stare con la donna che ami - il che si ricollega al sesso anale. Non voglio che voi pensiate che era riferito ad una relazione omosessuale. Spero di potermi rilassare come oggi qualche altra volta; dopo una mostra e dopo che la gente ti ha detto "Complimenti, hai fatto un ottimo lavoro!", e non mi leccavano il culo! Mi sento come se avessi compiuto qualcosa. Sono una persona informata. Sono molto confidente, e penso di aver fatto il meglio che potevo. Ora la gente può discutere sul mio lavoro da artista. So che esprimo il meglio di me, e queta è la cosa migliore.

Cyril Helnwein: Grande!! Grazie ancora per avermi dedicato del tempo. Vuoi aggiungere qualcosa?

Marilyn Manson: Penso che la gente dovrebbe aspettarsi ogni cosa che ha visto e ha sentito dire da me, in modo da potersi abituare a ciò che sta per arrivare.

Cyril Helnwein: Ci guarderò allora....




Marilyn Manson interview by Cyril Helnwein (in Japanese):

シリル：あなたの貴重なお時間に感謝します。あなたにインタビューできることは非常に光栄であり、名誉に思っています。

マンソン：これを読む全ての人々に代わって感謝する—彼らは、我々のこの対談が私のキャリアにとって如何に重要かを知らないだろうから、なぜなら君は私を父上（ゴットフリート・ヘルンヴァイン）に紹介してくれ、我々は偉大な仕事を共に行う事になったからね。したがって、これは読者にとって、舞台裏の紹介になるだろう。

シリル：ええ、あなたは僕の一番好きなアーティストなので、僕は今、とっても興奮しています。

マンソン：ありがとう、君が私を（父上に）紹介してくれたので、私は君